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PostNapisane: 2009-07-26, 22:42 
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Dołączył(a): 2007-11-10, 23:16
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Cześć. Czy mogę wam zadać pytanie? How common is it to move the suffixes -m , -ś , śmy , and ście away from the verb and attach them to another word or leave them on their own? My Polish friends here in England seem undecided on this. They say it's a regional thing . They say it's outdated and no longer in use by the younger generation and only by older people. I don't want to get too involved with it if this is the case. Polish verbs and past tense are difficult enough. A couple of examples to show you what I mean:

Gdzie bylaś ---- gdzieś była
Byliśmy bardzo smutni ---- bardzośmy byli smutni
Mieszkaliśmy blisko ---- myśmy blisko mieszkali
.


I'm sure you know what I mean from these

Wixer


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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 10:15 
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Dołączył(a): 2009-07-27, 10:07
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Hello,

Your friends are right - it's archaic, but some regions still use this transformation. Moreover, higher-educated people don't use it.

Conclusion: It's no longer common, but happens - if you plan to learn Polish (which is generally a bad idea) it's enough to understand this form and try to avoid using it.

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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 10:54 
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Dołączył(a): 2007-06-02, 19:30
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Why to discourage this Englishman from learning Polish? The one who takes his chance to do it deserves praise :-) I keep my fingers crossed for you, Wixer!


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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 14:01 
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Dołączył(a): 2009-05-25, 13:49
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Exactly! I also wish you lots of fun and pleasure with learning Polish, Wixer. And, of course, plenty of patience. (And you can wish me the same with my English. :D ) I think that Polish is equally difficult and beautiful language and I say so not only for the reason that I'm from this country. So, I do keep my fingers crossed for you. :)

As for to your question: Yeah, these forms with 'śmy' are rather archaic and regional... However, you can come across them in some old Polish literature or sometimes in films that show elder people or peasant surroundings.

So, these forms are maybe not often used in contemporary Polish and they are also the matter of dialect. Nevertheless, knowing them can be quite useful, especially if you want to know also these wonderful complexities of Polish language. :)


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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 14:27 
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Dołączył(a): 2009-07-27, 10:07
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Polish language SUCKS! I tell you that as a native speaker.

I can speak Polish, English and a little bit of Japanese and among those the Polish language is most difficult and stupid.

I treat language as a tool to communicate. English is perfect for that - easy to learn, not much exceptons, almost no inflection (if any, simple rules apply). Japanese (apart from a lot of symbols to remember) is like designed by aliens - completely diffrent way of expressing thoughts! Simple rules, not much grammar, some exceptions, unfortunately plural forms and counters are messed up. Polish? It's a rather mediciore piece of art carved by many. And as we know - a piece of art is something opposite to a tool.

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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 14:46 
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Dołączył(a): 2007-11-10, 23:16
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Thank you for your answers which confirm what my Polish friends say. Thanks too for your good wishes. In return I wish you every success with your English which is excellent I must say. Od dwóch lat uczę się polskiego . To jest najtrudniejsza rzecz, jaką kiedykolwiek robiłem. Niemiej jednak lubię język polski i bardzo lubię polskie piwo, szczególnie Żubr.
I will have another question relating to this later. I hope you will be able to help me. :wink:
Dziękuję bardzo za pomoc


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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 14:55 
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Dołączył(a): 2009-07-27, 10:07
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Wixer just ignored my discouragement... Guy's too optimistic to fit into Polish nation :P

OK man - good luck with Polish!

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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 18:04 
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Dołączył(a): 2007-11-10, 23:16
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Thank you madman. I think maybe ' madman' should be my name because it is surely mad to try to understand your language :lol:


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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 20:56 
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Dołączył(a): 2007-04-14, 18:59
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I quite disagree with the preceding speakers. Not all of the forms with moving suffixes are old-fashion. Some sound simply neutral. It concerns the first and the third person plural. For instance:

Q: Kto to zrobił?

A1: Myśmy to zrobili.
A2: My to zrobiliśmy.

Both answers sound good.

Q1: Wyście to zrobili?
Q2: Wy to zrobiliście?

Both questions are ok.

What's more. In the sentences "type 1" (above: A1 and Q1) it is easy to get the right stress, while "type 2" sentences tend to be stressed incorrectly. Look:

They usually say:

My to zrobiliśmy.
Wy to zrobiliście?

And they should:

My to zrobiliśmy.
Wy to zrobiliście?

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PostNapisane: 2009-07-27, 21:12 
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Dołączył(a): 2007-11-10, 23:16
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Hi bob good to hear from you again. How are you? Good answer from you as usual old friend. Interesting point about the stress. These past tense forms which break the ' 2nd syllable from last stress rule' are certainly often stressed incorrectly by me. I asked the question about these suffixes because some of the text books on Polish grammar mention them quite a lot :?


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